A Hikkikomori StopGap

Reply to Chair/HikiCulture Admin

I recently made a topic worrying about the actions being taken on the Hikikomori Wikipedia page with regards to HikiCulture over here and two of the admins responded.

I think they are two because one named himself the HikiCulture Admin and the other named himself Chair although when I was there, Chair was the only active admin I know of since he was the creator of the forum.

Anyways, the reason I decided to make a blog post out of this instead of a direct reply underneath the comments is because of the worrying tone of both commentors. Although I do plan to paste my reply to this quote:

That whole ‘incident’ on the Wikipedia page was typed up by a frustrated member who had been banned from the forum. I had every reason to ban that member, and had been considering it already a week before I finally placed it.

Maybe both admins didn’t know but to quote the recent Wikipedia revision page… Don’t delete stuff from talk pages!

This was a potential major issue because not only was the HikiCulture link restored but the talk page which gives reasons for why HikiCulture is not notable was removed also.

Now the link in itself when restored is no big issue. Lots of people can mistake Wikipedia as an advertising portal as opposed to an encyclopedia. In fact, for a long time, the HikiPhpBB forum was underneath the External Links.

(I have no idea why some users deleted it only to replace it with HikiCulture but most forum and blog links are frowned upon in Wikipedia so there is already some controversy with regards to why the forum link was in the page)

Now add the action of deleting unresolved discussions and now you have a possibility of a person trying to censor criticisms to a site….The admins in their reply though went further than that and posted some irrelevant accusations which justifies this separate blog post:

HikiCulture Admin:
#1

This user was banned from the site for excessive spam and general trolling. We also have reason to believe he was using a proxy for nefarious reasons. His username “foolness” is very accurate, as he acted like one at every opportunity he got, despite warnings from staff.

This was weird not so much due to the accusation.It was more of a question as to why this was brought up and how much of this was true. Username hijacking was a common worry of mine but at the same time, I do know that I’m not worth the time.

(In fact in the now defunct /hikki/ AnonIB board, someone even said that my way of speaking was distinct enough that it would be hard to pretend as me.)

Still…

Such comments often fall under a “You said, I said” model so one of the convenience of making a separate blog post for this was that I could post this topic in other Hikikomori boards and hopefully, current members of HikiCulture visiting there could verify what happened after I got banned.

Btw, my personal recollection of what happened is located here. …or for those who don’t want to click on the link:

Ok, I was banned for the second time in HikiCulture (I don’t know the reason why. It could have something to do with that announcement that something changed in their profiles but since I never put any data in there, I never bothered tweaking it but soon I saw my account/posts disappear despite remaining active. In fact, my account was deleted around the same time I wrote a reply. It wasn’t a controversial one and it was attributing the fact that despite the admin’s criticisms with the HikiPhpBB forum, the member base growth remained the same and in fact, the previous forum probably had more Hikikomori related topics although it wasn’t the fault of the forum design as there were certain key members that stopped being active at around the time the forum required these members to stay active. This is why I’m not attributing it to a case of breaking some obscure rule but treat this as a warning if you plan to join that forum.I normally don’t like re-joining forums so I won’t be signing up for another account there. I did sign up a 2nd time because at the time, my first trial was so short I wasn’t able to preview most of the forum’s contents.)

Also when my account was banned for the first time, in a private pm located in HikiPhpBB:

Yeah sorry, some members got pruned after I created new rules. You are welcome to join again, just be sure to be active to prevent automatic pruning.

Sent at: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:35 pm
From: Chair
To: Foolness

Btw for those wondering why I would have a private conversation with Chair at another forum, the reason was because Chair originally invited me to HikiCulture via a PM in HikiPhpBB.

#2

And fyi, foolness: Many people is this world with AS has done great things. If you want to give yourself credibility, do not make fun of those with medical conditions, you just end up looking “foolish”. :P

This was another weird comment because I didn’t feel like I made any comment that is directed at anyone with Asperger Syndrome. (I am guessing that is what AS meant) Still, if anyone is willing to mediate, I would be open to anyone pointing out where I made fun of them in that thread.Obviously I’m biased to myself while I am wary of HikiCulture Admin’s motives so if anyone else would like to point out which section sent that wrong interpretation, I’m all ears and would edit that portion out.

#3

Please do me two favors: 1.) Do your research before childlessly laying down groundless claims, and 2.) Accept the fact that you were banned, grow up, and move on. All you have accomplished by writing this, is making the site appear higher in Google. You saved us some trouble, thanks a lot!

I really don’t know where I am laying down groundless claims and not accepting my banning, so again, if anyone can mediate I would appreciate the help.I would really like to assume that HikiCulture Admin’s words are based on something valid and not just mud slinging but frankly I can’t interpret it any other way.

Chair:

#1

I have not received any site complaints from anyone in the IRC channel (about a quarter of the forum’s users enter the IRC chatroom each day), nor have I received complaints through personal messages or emails.

This is actually the reverse. If any current HikiCulture member can mediate for me and point out how the topic had nothing to do with complaints by members, I would again appreciate the help. …The rest of the section didn’t seem related to me or the topic, so I just copy pasted it in the Wikipedia talk page over here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hikikomori#Linking_to_sites_which_aren.27t_much_help

Finally, I apologize if I thanked people generally too much in this thread. These kinds of replies are the kind that make me want to explode at a person because they seem so off-base and reek of insults for insult’s sake and yet there’s a strong possibility that there was only a misunderstanding so to counter and prevent any unnecessary flaming on my part, I am trying to be as polite as possible.

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Is HikiCulture turning more and more into a spam forum?

This is another placeholder topic but one slightly more serious:

First off, I’ve no doubt that - for members of this forum - this could easily come off as a HikiPhpBB vs. HikiCulture vs. AnonIB /hikikomori/ thread.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t help that coincidentally I’ve made a recent return post on HikiPhpBB.

This isn’t intentional but is a result of me just being frustrated and bored so I decided to re-check the Hikikomori boards I know of (except Sankaku and HikiCulture)

Sankaku because it’s a news site and I’m too busy to add further information overload unto myself and HikiCulture because I’ve been banned.

Another major blow to my bias but I’ll let you decide how much based on this incident:

From a recent revision of the Hikikomori wikipedia page discussion board:

I’ve been a member on a few Hikikomori and recluse forums and websites for a while now. “HikiCulture” keeps being linked to here, but it generally is not a good place for information and help. It’s still fairly new and the administrator has no idea on how to run a forum correctly and generally doesn’t understand that the site is for people who need help and information. He overreacts and abuses control without thinking about his actions, and he has Asperger’s Sydrome which hinders his decisive abilities, causing harsh and uncalled-for actions which may offend. He also bans people for things which are petty and do not require action. It’s generally a place to avoid due to this. The community itself is great, but the administrator known to some as “Chair” isn’t good for the community. I’ve heard of other Hikikomori sites opening soon for giving advice and help and they’ll be linked to here once they have been created.

Also, I am not meaning to cause offense, I have been asked to write this comment by a lot of members of the community at “HikiCulture”. The way it’s ran is unfair and the staff do not care about us with mental conditions, reclusiveness, depression and social anxiety. It’s not wise to link to “HikiCulture” any further.

Now I didn’t write this and I only had a short time on HikiCulture so I have no way of verifying this but what’s worrying is that this comment was up a few days ago.

I don’t participate much in Wikipedia but the argument while not verifying to me that it was accurate, did convince me that there was ample reason to remove the HikiCulture link from the main article so I decided to do so.

What’s worrying and why I am being harsh and calling it spam is that not only was the link restored but that the above quote was also removed.

…

Now I get that there’s no proof of any persistant trolling nor is this even a rare issue for most wikipedia articles but it is kind of worrying that the Hikikomori label may be starting to be used as a marketing tactic and that’s why I’m preserving these quotes in case it never gets restored.

(I’ve no patience for wikipedia edit wars.)

I also fully accept the responsibility that I may be accused of doing the same thing with this blog and this may come off as hypocritical mud-slinging by me but since I have no way to prove my integrity, I could only give my word that I don’t have an agenda against Hiki-Culture but it would be heart breaking if future Hikikomoris gather in the wrong place due to wikipedians’ neglect of protecting the Hikikomori article from such edits.

Therefore even if the word “spam” can be interpreted as sensationalism, this would have to stay to serve as linkbait in case the issue becomes more drastic in the future.

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Taijin kyofusho

(According to Wikipedia)

Taijin kyofusho is a Japanese culture-specific syndrome. The term taijin kyofusho literally means the disorder (sho) of fear (kyofu) of interpersonal relations (taijin). Dr. Shoma Morita described the condition as vicious cycle of self examination and reproach which can occur in people of hypochondriacal temperament.

In the West, taijin kyofusho is usually described as a form of social anxiety (social phobia), with the sufferer dreading and avoiding social contact. However, instead of a fear of embarrassing themselves or being harshly judged by others because of their social ineptness (as in cases in the Western world), sufferers of taijin kyofusho report a fear of offending or harming other people. The focus is thus on avoiding harm to others rather than to oneself.

In the official Japanese diagnostic system, taijin kyofusho is subdivided into the following categories:

* Sekimen-kyofu, the phobia of blushing (English term: ereuthophobia)
* Shubo-kyofu, the phobia of a deformed body, similar to Body dysmorphic disorder
* Jikoshisen-kyofu, the phobia of eye contact
* Jikoshu-kyofu, the phobia of having foul body odor (English term: osmophobia, bromidrosiphobia)

Since it is not prevalent in American culture, taijin kyofusho is not detailed in the DSM IV. This is under debate, however, as symptoms indicative of taijin kyofusho are sometimes found in patients in the United States.

—

Courteosy of Desuu’s twitter: http://twitter.com/desuuuu

(Sadly I don’t know how to permalink twits)

My hikki research has led me to Taijin Kyofusho, a culture specific syndrome. Better than hikki, but I already finished my hw and it’s late.about 19 hours ago from web

Yay!!! Finally a new word for Wapanese people. Maybe that’ll get rid of most of the bandwagon hikkis.

…just kidding.

On a much more serious note, I did have some experience as a Jikoshisen-kyofu although this was when I was a NEET and not a Hikkikomori.

I think it was Jikoshisen-kyofu because as a person who grew up shy and could be considered anti-social and then getting to a certain point where you did become more social, the difference in eye contact is mind boggling to yourself.

What I mean by this is that you can go from just not realizing your avoiding eye contact to literally taking an effort to make eye contact and seeing the value of it.

This is not what I mean by possibly experiencing Jikoshisen-kyofu though. Rather it is after this experience and then choosing to create a Tatemae of anti-socialism that you actually can start mimicking this effect. In a way, it’s still like avoiding eye contact except the thought that penetrates through the mind isn’t one of shyness but rather kind of a mix of “you’ll just be disappointed if you were to become my friend” to “I’d rather not involve you with my issues.”

Doesn’t sound that unique but it still feels unique for me because unlike where you would normally think this when you’re shy or when the thought just arises in you, in those situations, the pattern was first eye contact, decision to meet eye contact and then eye avoidance — so it was always or at least often connected with a voluntary avoidance of the eyes rather than a subconscious way of avoiding eye contact.

Of course since the wikipedia article didn’t expand on it further, I’m not really sure it actually does fit with what I’m talking about. I’m just sharing my personal experiences as an attempt to expand on what I believe are the possible differences.

In particular for me, one of the unique things I was doing during such events was that… as much as I would avoid eye contact, I would also practice intense eye contact. Never on the same person though. However that was a common “out of the blue” practice I used to do that seems unique to that part of my life.

Also ironically enough, unlike Social Anxiety Disorder, I can’t really see it as something Hikkikomoris won’t do. (Unlike my category for Anxiety based Hikkikomoris)

Maybe because the experience was much closer to what led me to become a Hikkikomori although my rationalization is simply that Taijin Kyofusho sounds more like an act decided upon inner contemplation while socially anxious people seem to feel like their decisions are much more outside of their control or requiring any thought by them other than “they don’t want it.”

Of course this is just a gross over-simplification of what socially anxious people truly feel but it is this distinct differences that makes me rationalize this way. Then again, it doesn’t seem like this condition will ever be researched much with current means. After all what can they do to replicate and verify the effects of this syndrome? Have someone actually rid their anxiety and hurt someone? At least Hikkikomoris can be negatively prejudiced as people who just won’t go out and only show to physically hurt someone when they are forced against their will to be where they don’t want to.